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Conspiracy to impede and obstruct criminal behaviour is not a crime, it's legitimate self-defence.

The fact that federal agents are breaking the law doesn't change that. At all.

In spite of what you've been told federal LEO are bound by the law.

Executing random bystanders on a whim, operating without visible ID, failing to allow congressional oversight of facilities, failing to give those captured access to a lawyer - among many, many others - all put this operation far outside of any reasonable claim to proportionality or legality.


> Conspiracy to impede and obstruct criminal behaviour is not a crime, it's legitimate self-defence.

The behaviour being impeded and obstructed is not criminal. It is, in fact, law enforcement.

> In spite of what you've been told federal LEO are bound by the law.

I have not been told otherwise, nor does my argument assume or require otherwise.

> Executing random bystanders on a whim

This objectively does not even remotely describe either killing, and I have seen no evidence for the other things. Nor can I fathom what "congressional oversight" you have in mind, nor why it would be legally necessary.


You're truly lost down some path if you think those people weren't state sponsored execution. If this happened in other countries with a "regime" it would be easier to recognize, but apparently if you dress it up a certain way and use a particular verbage that changes anything?

If you believe that, then the right process is for the legal system to deal with it. If you feel aggrieved by the legal system you should vote to change it. Nowhere in the social contract is it even remotely acceptable to act as a vigilante and respond with violence.

She didn't refuse to move. She was filmed turning away, slowly and carefully.

Stop trying to lie about this. The video is clear, and far too many people have seen it by now.


> She was filmed turning away, slowly and carefully.

No, the SUV did not begin to move until much later. Hence Ross being able to circle it, film the license plate and have an extended verbal exchange with Good's partner. It does not move until she initiates the two-point turn, which is a response to the order to get out of the car.

> Stop trying to lie about this. The video is clear, and far too many people have seen it by now.

It is counter to HN guidelines to make accusations like this. I agree that there are multiple videos of the incident which clearly show what happened. I have spent far too much time watching it. I disagree that it shows what you claim.


You can't invoke self-defence against someone filming with an iPhone.

Don't be ridiculous. This whole line of argumentation is embarrassing.


Was Renee Good filming with an iPhone? Or was she behind the wheel of an SUV?

Does murdering someone who is driving away from you prevent immediate harm to you? Uncontrolled moving vehicles with bricks on the accelerator are very dangerous.

Self–defence is extremely limited in scope. Basically, if someone is about to stab you, you can do anything necessary to prevent that stabbing. Self–defence doesn't include that after someone fails to stab you and runs away, you can shoot them while they are running away. It doesn't include revenge. If you shoot someone who fails to stab you and runs away, it is murder like any other shooting. Self–defence doesn't include shooting someone who invades your house and isn't currently trying to hurt you, that is castle doctrine.


Can you explain where immigration law justifies murdering innocent bystanders?

The Pretti shooting has been ruled a homicide, by the way.


> The Pretti shooting has been ruled a homicide, by the way.

I don't see anything in e.g. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2026/01/27/alex-p... to substantiate that; and as far as I can tell there have not yet been any other investigations, and thus no other opportunity for such a ruling.


A homicide isn't a "ruling" in court, it just describes the manner of death. We all saw several ICE agents shoot this man. It's a homicide.

"ruled a homicide" is a "ruling"

Unnecessary when he owns the Supreme Court and his thugs routinely ignore court orders.

Indeed. You're far more likely to get sensible policy opinions from a STEM PhD who knows what science is than from sleazy opportunist politicians, investors, and PR people.

You might even say that the opportunists dislike STEM because it gets in the way of their opportunism.


Most PhDs don't move the needle because the point of a PhD is to learn how to do research, not to produce ground-breakingly original work that reinvents the entire scientific order.

That's orthogonal to domain expertise and general ability.

If you can survive a PhD there's an adequate chance you know more about your subject than an undergrad and are more capable of focused independent work.

That's what employers are buying. Which is why STEM PhDs still get more attention from the private sector than generic mass-produced undergrads.


It would not surprise me in the least to discover that China is the true source of the current internal attack on the US, and Russia is a cut out.

It would be efficient for China to have Russia undermine the US while Russia also weakens itself.

China has made huge inroads in Africa, which gives it access to essential metals and other raw materials, and also puts it in a strong position diplomatically.


America's history is basically one long story of internal divisions, briefly overcome primarily during economic booms. The last economic boom, the computing/internet boom, was particularly long lived and helped create the longest window of internal stability we've had. That boom's coming to an end, and the era of stability it brought probably isn't that far behind. And this is before you even stop to consider things like social media which helps amp up and accelerate divisions by orders of magnitude.

If the root cause is external, it’s easier to stomach. But what if this is just America, attacking itself? That’s a lot harder.

To be clear - the sociopaths and the culture of resource domination that generates and enables them is the real problem.

AI on its own is chaotic neutral.


His base are the 0.01%. They could end this tomorrow by phoning their pet senators and having a quiet word.

The people on the front lines - including the ICE thugs - are entirely disposable. They people using them have zero interest in their welfare or how this works out for them in the long term. (Spoilers - not well.)

Of course they don't understand this. But this is absolutely standard for authoritarian fascism - groom and grudge farm the petty criminals and deviants, recruit them as regime enforcers with promises of money and freedom from consequences, set them loose, profit.


And propaganda is multi-generational; these people have been eating their own filth for decades and have no idea.

30 million Americans on the low end believe the earth is only thousands of years old and specifically deny the existence of plate tectonics and continental drift

That is a huge constituency that openly believes in falsehoods and has a premade conspiracy taught to their children that all scientists are in a satanic conspiracy to make you disbelieve god. Not even that scientists are wrong, but that they actively work, all over the world, every one of them, to lie to you.

They produce an entire alternative media ecosystem, one where everything they consume is made out of trivial lies you must take as axioms, where scientists have no evidence and just say things (like a preacher), where scientists don't answer questions (or invite learning and experimentation!), where you are violently oppressed (and murdered) for being "Christian", and where only a specific version of the bible is allowed and the doctrine is that anyone is supposed to be able to understand the bible because god made it that way but for some reason people only listen to interpretations from their pastors.

They aren't exactly voting for democrats.

This constituency is the entire reason Republican administrations and platforms insist on "Parental authority" in education, a thing which should never and not at all be a part of public education, and which literally means they are upset that schools teach their kids that evolution is a well understood and documented and supported phenomenon that directly explains speciation, because their religious doctrine is so far off the norm that it has to reject an earth as old as we know it is, and instead relies on an age of the earth that was incorrectly calculated by a religious scholar making poor assumptions and adding up ages in the bible and was done before we had incontrovertible evidence against it.

This constituency needs conspiracy theories because they need to somehow wave away the massive knowledge we gained from science in the time since their cults started. Of course, once you have convinced your 11 year old to internalize your conspiracy theory as ground truth or else be physically abused, it's trivial to then get them to believe any bullshit. They literally were not taught basic things like how to evaluate a source, or how to support an argument.

Check out a fundamentalist Christian textbook sometime, or a knock off of a popular movie redone to make Christians the oppressed populace by making up things out of whole cloth.

THIS is why the "war on christmas" is a thing. THIS is why they have to play victim and insist that allowing other people to abort pregnancies is somehow an affront to the individual practice of THEIR religion. THIS is why they insist the USA is a christian nation despite all the contrary evidence.

They live in a fake reality.


<< is the entire reason Republican administrations and platforms insist on "Parental authority"

You either don't have a child or have an agenda that does not include your input in its future. This is the nicest and most charitable take I can have here. In short, but you are wrong in a way that you might not even understand to be possible. FWIW, I heard this line of argumentation before and, amusingly based on the argument itself, reeks of current education system.


> Check out a fundamentalist Christian textbook sometime

I was raised by a hyper abusive boxer-turned-Catholic deacon and forced to be involved in the Church. I've read the Bible front to back, we don't even need to get into Fundamentalists to find insane cult behavior. I was kicked out and left on the street, homeless, because I refused to undergo Catholic confirmation at age 15. It has affected my entire life.


If money could buy politicians they would be a lot better behaved than they are

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