I sympathise with the consumer associations: charging for largish hand luggage makes price comparisons deceptive, distorting the market.
On the other hand, storing hand luggage overhead is one of the most time consuming parts of the boarding process, which is even worse with Ryanair's short intereuropean flights. All that time spent on hand luggage costs money, and it seems only fair to make those pay that cause the delay, incentivizing people to take less luggage (bags that can be stored under your seat are still free). It makes economic sense for everyone.
To satisfy both sides of the argument, you could show the price with large hand luggage fee included, and offer a discount if you show up without hand luggage. If you extend that concept, you arrive at a "base feature set" that has to be included in the base price of any flight, and from there you can add surcharges and discounts.
Isn’t this like McDonalds advertising the cheapest burger but only giving you an empty bun because the meat patty is the most time consuming part of the cooking process?
There’s already too much misdirection in airline ticket sales, we need less not more.
This strongly suggests they had checked in luggage and simply didn't want to pay even more just to bring some in the cabin. A flight is not like a taxi ride, you're all but guaranteed you need luggage. So I think the cause-effect relationship works the other way. People don't bring hand luggage because they plan based on the cheap fare only to discover it doesn't include that.
The only reason prices are advertised as such is that they can initially stand out as being cheap. Many people will just go for it because it's hard to make an apples to apples comparison with an airline that gives you everything in a single package. Services that are now in a race to the bottom (airlines, mobile operators, etc.) are using these strategies more and more to differentiate themselves. But it's all done through misleading advertisement.
I didn't stalk people about it or anything. I myself actually paid for a bag in order to be able to carry-on my guitar, only to be told at the gate that I needed to gate check it (but with assurances that they'd be very careful, etc - although it's a carbon fiber guitar in a hard case, so I wasn't too worried).
So I got on the plane without a carry-on. Then I noticed... that most other people did too.
The luggage carousel in Berlin was pretty packed, but it's hard to really say how many people did or didn't check. I imagine Ryanair keeps tabs on these things fairly tightly, as its a crucial part of their model.
> On the other hand, storing hand luggage overhead is one of the most time consuming parts of the boarding process
Depends on how you define "boarding process". My experience is that it is insignificant if the boarding process starts at the point where the boarding gates open and ends when the plane starts taxiing for takeoff.
Exactly. If airlines wanted to, they could significantly optimize the process... Like ordering the passangers by seat number already in the terminal. Some larger airlines do that, but discount airlines prefer to make money by charging for "priority boarding"... and even that is retarded, they could simply charge more for upfront seats (I don't really see the benefit of boarding early, after all airplanes are likely less comfortable then terminals, but there is a benefit to exiting early).
Btw, as far as I know the reason for the long "everybody boarded but airplane not moving" wait times is that the flight is considered "departed" when they disconnect from the terminal, so they can be "on time" (another meaningless KPI) even if they don't actually take off an hour later.
> On the other hand, storing hand luggage overhead is one of the most time consuming parts of the boarding process, which is even worse with Ryanair's short intereuropean flights. All that time spent on hand luggage costs money, and it seems only fair to make those pay that cause the delay, incentivizing people to take less luggage (bags that can be stored under your seat are still free). It makes economic sense for everyone.
Actually the main problem here was the airlines dis-incentivizing checked luggage, by introducing charges for it. Planes are designed to carry luggage in the hold, not the cabin, but if you charge to carry luggage in the hold, customers are going to try to bring as much as they can into the cabin.
> To satisfy both sides of the argument, you could show the price with large hand luggage fee included, and offer a discount if you show up without hand luggage. If you extend that concept, you arrive at a "base feature set" that has to be included in the base price of any flight, and from there you can add surcharges and discounts.
I agree. IMHO, there needs to be regulation standardizing what's included in a ticket for advertising purposes. Now every airline has their own unique way of nickle and diming you, and it so time consuming and troublesome to figure out whats the best deal for traveling from A to B in a reasonable fashion. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what the most common features that a typical travelers uses.
The only reason people store so much hand luggage is that the airlines charge for checked baggage. This wasn't always the case.
> offer a discount if you show up without hand luggage
Realistically, how many such people are there going to be who are travelling without a change of clothes?
And if they win on this one, where's next on the slippery slope? Differential pricing for handbags and laptop bags? Could they maybe start charging based on the contents of the bags?
A lot of everhead luggage space issues are caused by the ubiquitous roll-aboards that so many business travelers in particular use. And business travelers typically don’t pay for checked luggage either because it’s free because of their airline status or because they expense it. They just don’t want to wait for luggage or deal with the hassle of delayed luggage.
I almost never check luggage. (I also use soft bags without wheels for carryon.) But I get 2 checked bags for free on my primary airline.
The only reason people store so much hand luggage is that the airlines charge for checked baggage
I try to fly with only hand luggage even when checking in luggage is free since it makes the the check in process slightly faster, saves me having to spend half an hour waiting for my luggage at the other end, means I have my luggage if my connecting flight gets re-routed or cancelled and makes it much more unlikely that my luggage gets lost along the way.
>Realistically, how many such people are there going to be who are travelling without a change of clothes?
A typical Ryanair customer would book a flight from Frankfurt to London for $20. It's not unusual to fly Ryanair to see a musical or a concert somewhere in Europe and fly back immediately after. Lots of potential to fly ultralight.
> The only reason people store so much hand luggage is that the airlines charge for checked baggage.
I don't think this is true. Frequent flyers always tell me the purpose of a large carry-on is so you don't waste time at the baggage reclaim at the destination. This makes sense to me because that can often be 30+ minutes.
I assume those people either fly to and back in the same day, have an already established "base" with clothes & cosmetics on the other end, or just buy everything at their destination. Personally, even for business trips longer than 2-3 days I end up having to use checked luggage.
I'm leaving today for a 4-day trip with just a backpack (I'm a guy without contact lenses or other medical issues so I need minimal cosmetics) (admittedly I'm taking a bit of a risk by trusting the weather forecast).
A few years ago I went for 10-day trip to Cuba (i.e. you can't really buy stuff there) with a 40L backpack.
A ~40L travel backpack like [1] is legal carryon (and is probably actually a bit more adaptable for overhead space than a typical rollaboard) along with a small laptop bag or other "personal item." It's what I mostly use to travel all over the world for weeks at a time. This is on a regular airline--typically United. I get free checked luggage but rarely take advantage.
To my way of thinking you’re taking too much stuff. I once carried more because I needed suits and the like. These days I’ll go in a 3 week trip with just carry-on.
Might be because on the flights I took, trying to stuff all my electronics (a laptop, a Kindle, power cables) and clothes&cosmetics for 3+ days in the same bag would make me exceed either weight or size limit of hand luggage.
The simple and most reasonable way to differentiate is that anything stored under the seat in front of you is free. Anything that goes into the overhead locker you have to pay for (but still cheaper than checking in luggage)
I’d occasionally fly Dublin to London for one night (even once or twice over and back in a day, but I try to avoid that because it’s awful). I’d only take a bag that fits under the seat.
You aren't going without any luggage, but just what you can fit behind the seat in front - and you can fit multiple change of clothes there, I assure you.
So how far and for how long do you think someone can fly with a luggage that fits under their seat?
I can't speak for everyone (and are probably an exception, since even for a 3 week vacation my luggage never exceeds 15kg). But I can easily go for a very long weekend (up to a week) with the contents of a small duffle bag that easily fits under the seat.
Which means a fresh t-shirt, underwear and socks for the entire time. It includes toileteries, something to read and a medium sized camera.
In my experience people usually pack far too much.
The biggest promotion on https://www.ryanair.com/ as I see it is "Two-night stays in Europe from €88" — weekend trips are a big part of Ryanair's business.
A toothpaste tube, deodourant and a mini shaving foam fit easily in the 1L limit.
Liquids really don’t need to be a big issue. All my toiletries are in a 1 qt. Ziplock even for 2 or 3 week trips. I know some people carry a lot more than that but it’s often not needed.
>So how far and for how long do you think someone can fly with a luggage that fits under their seat?
In any 1 week vacation to any destination around the world? People are diverse and you shouldn't presume everything about yourself applies to everybody else. I've been on dozens such vacations.
On the other hand, storing hand luggage overhead is one of the most time consuming parts of the boarding process, which is even worse with Ryanair's short intereuropean flights. All that time spent on hand luggage costs money, and it seems only fair to make those pay that cause the delay, incentivizing people to take less luggage (bags that can be stored under your seat are still free). It makes economic sense for everyone.
To satisfy both sides of the argument, you could show the price with large hand luggage fee included, and offer a discount if you show up without hand luggage. If you extend that concept, you arrive at a "base feature set" that has to be included in the base price of any flight, and from there you can add surcharges and discounts.