I’m very nostalgic about the countless hours I frittered away on video games and the internet as an adolescent. Part of me thinks it made me the person I am today, who I am proud of. I recently joined a Counter Strike team with work and had some of the most fun times I can think of recently. I compare that with the time I put aside to learn 3D modelling, which was fun in its own way but required more self motivation and the satisfaction took a lot more time to achieve. It made me question what society accepts as a valid way to spend spare time, as well as the purpose of how we spend our spare time.
I feel this deeply. I was extremely lazy in high school and college and then got my act together gradually throughout my 20s to the point where I feel like I no longer waste much time. I've experienced some success and accomplished goals as a result, but when I look back on my life, I remember those hours wasted playing video games most fondly.
There's a motivational saying that when you die you get to meet the person you could have become, and that's your individual heaven/hell. I've got a nagging fear that maybe if I learn to speak French or sell a business or whatever, raise a family, grow old and die, I'll come face to face with the guy who played 10,000 hours of Civ.
You can't play 10,000 hours of Civ. At some point, the game become repetitive because the possibilities space is very limited. EU4, on the other hand, has pretty much unlimited possibilities. You can negotiate deals with neighboring countries, there are way more countries (whole world actually) than in Civ, you have a complicated Trade system that can make you money, a more sophisticated religion structure that you can use for your advantage...
Me too. I remember my countless hours playing (arguably wasted) diablo 2 very fondly. I still recall a lot of the detailed stats of specific characters I had built. Also helps I had sunk the hours playing with my partner at the time, so it was also a bit of a bonding moment. Didn’t help my grades any though.
You don't have to remember something perpetually for it to be worthwhile. I've got a young dog, and I've spent 1-2 hours (shared with partner) every single day for the last 18 months outside walking. I don't remember all of those walks, even some of the ones that were very enjoyable at the time. But I enjoyed them at the time, (or maybe I didn't, it was pouring rain etc).
Video games are an easy target, but you can make the same argument about any lesiure activity. Something doesn't have to have an output to be worth spending time on.
> It made me question what society accepts as a valid way to spend spare time
Well, to be brutally honest with you, it's one thing for you to be proud of yourself for playing video games, but why would anyone else see that as something pride-worthy?
Typically, one takes justifiable pride for accomplishments that stand up to external scrutiny. That usually comes in the form of the accomplishment having an element of sacrifice, of pain and difficulty, of opportunity costs paid, and of a result that stands on its own as something not everyone can do. I am proud of some of my adventures; proud of some of my work; proud of some of the artistic things I have created. None of them are extremely amazing in the grand scheme of things, and I don't let any of it get to my head, but they do give me stories to tell at the bar that aren't dismissed with a wave of the hand as being frittered-away time.
Video games, on the other hand, are not exactly grand sacrificial effort. I can't imagine telling someone I was proud of myself for spending a few hours killing orcs on a screen while eating processed snack food alone in my underwear.
> as well as the purpose of how we spend our spare time.
It's only "spare" if you've really satisfied yourself in your best judgement of what you could otherwise be doing.
I like to put Slack and Laziness on a continuum. Laziness is putting things off, avoiding important tasks, pawning them off on others, rationalizing why you shouldn't bother, finding easier ways out even if the end result isn't as good, cutting corners. From the article:
> I was supposed to renew my car registration today. I haven’t opened the Web site.
That's classic laziness. Sure, the consequences can be dealt with later, a day or two without driving won't be the end of the world, but it also took about as much effort to write this self-effacing article as it would have to just renew the insurance and move on.
Slack, on the opposite side of the spectrum (and before the word was co-opted by a program that ironically takes up all possible Slack), is free time that you carve out of the world with your actions. Slack is arranging things so that you have time to relax, time to "surf down the luck plane" that you have created for yourself, so that you can allow things to proceed knowing that at the end of the slope, you're not actually in a worse off position than when you started. Slack is paid vacation time, where laziness is unemployment. Slack is a glass of wine at the end of the day, laziness is beer for breakfast. Slack is sitting in the hot tub after you work out, laziness is sitting in the bathtub after you eat a microwaved dinner. Slack is posting on HN on a cloudy Saturday morning while the kids (with breakfast in their tummies) watch a bit of TV, laziness is posting on HN when you're supposed to be writing a program at 3:00 on a Thursday afternoon.
Video games are something you can do in your slack time, or they're something you can do because you're lazy. That's the difference between a healthy hobby and a damaging addiction.
> Well, to be brutally honest with you, it's one thing for you to be proud of yourself for playing video games, but why would anyone else see that as something pride-worthy?
Putting aside the fact that many people have made highly successful careers out of playing video games, why should I care at all what other people think about it? Life is too short to only do the things that other people think are "pride-worthy". Do the things that make you happy.
My sons always said "Video games are our only education" because of the many times I was astonished they knew some obscure historical detail and they had learned it from a video game.
My oldest, who is math challenged, was livid when I finally successfully explained to him what Algebra was and he went "I've been doing that for years while playing video games!!!" He's still mad about it and it's probably at least two decades later.
Well, to be brutally honest with you
I read somewhere that "people who value brutal honesty value brutality more than honesty." As someone fond of the saying "I'm too truthful to be good," I took that to heart.
I’m pretty convinced that some games have made me smarter. It sounds daft, but I remember completing The Witness and felt like I had transcended somehow. Still haven’t found the right way to put it on my CV
> Well, to be brutally honest with you, it's one thing for you to be proud of yourself for playing video games, but why would anyone else see that as something pride-worthy?
For exactly the same reasons anyone thinks that reading novels is pride-worthy. People who plays some of the more complicated niche games have some respect from me at least.
Similarly getting good at a game requires dedication and work, so people with good ranks in games also has some respect from me.
I should clarify that I’m not proud of myself for playing video games, but that they were an important part of my life which no doubt shaped the person I am today. I do think people can be proud of playing video games though. The amount of hard work required to get into the top rank of competitive games such as Counter Strike is no different from any other sport. It’s a deep game with, I would argue, more to learn than most traditional sports.
Yes, I completely agree video games can be an unhealthy pursuit to the detriment of one’s life. If I’d put some of those hours I spent playing video games at uni into my course work I would’ve got better grades. I actually stopped playing games for the better part of my twenties to pursue more valid hobbies, such as photography, which I’m glad of. It made me a more interesting person. I came back to playing games a few years ago and realised I had given up something in my life that gave me so much joy. I think it’s hard to develop that deep connection to anything that we don’t do when we’re adolescents.
Really liked the separation between slack and laziness!
> Typically, one takes justifiable pride for accomplishments that stand up to external scrutiny. That usually comes in the form of the accomplishment having an element of sacrifice, of pain and difficulty
I think this is where a lot of people might lose themselves, and I might be misinterpreting you here, but: I think an important distinction is that people should take pride in providing value for their community, not having it be approved by them. Otherwise we might end up acting contrary to our beliefs, and feeling a hollow sense of achievement in the end.
Also, by your definition of hard work being pride-worthy, many gamers might meet that criteria, especially the professionals (?). Games can often be more competitive and demanding than anything I've experienced in real life. I've only teetered on the edge of competitive levels, so in a sense I wasted a lot of my time, since it all wasn't deliberate, but parts of it were definitely hard work, filled with passion.
