> If you live in a city and want to live somewhere affordable, you're often looking at 1hr+ of commute each way.
Reading your comment and others beneath you, I sense many of you have a weird idea of what a city is.
What you describe is true only for a minority of cities. I live in a city with above median housing prices. I live a 10 minute drive from my work. My house is not expensive - in fact, the expensive neighborhoods are farther away.
Initially you may not have much of a choice on where you work, but if you go through your whole career not having that choice, you probably need to work on your career a bit. For everyone I know, they decided to make that compromise (don't want to leave awesome city, etc). For them, not having enough time in the day definitely is a choice.
I agree with the rest of your accounting, but will note that there are weekends. As for gym, I just figured out exercises I can do at home with minimal equipment. It's a lot more flexible (and takes less time) than going to a gym.
You might be the one with a weird idea of what a city is. I'd wager most people think of something like the top 20 metropolitan statistical areas by population when they hear the term. In the U.S, at least, those generally all have terrible traffic and subpar transit.
You just made my case for me. The majority of people who live in cities in the US are not in the top 20 metropolitan areas, I think the majority will disagree with your idea of a city. Every city I've lived in was not in the top 20.
And frankly, even looking at some of the top 20 areas, some of them have pretty decent traffic. I know people who live in Phoenix (ranked 10th) whose commute is definitely under half an hour one way. And they live in nice areas.
Houston: Some of the major employers are in a crappy part of town. Very easy to find houses nearby, but few do so because they don't like the neighborhood. Still, the long commute is an active choice and not about affordability.
Take Manhattan. I got a call from a well known company to work there. I said "No way. Expensive and long commutes." The recruiter explained: No - just live in New Jersey. If you get the right neighborhood, the commute to work by public transit will be 30-40 minutes. I checked - he was right. Those New Jersey neighborhoods were decent ones, and the houses were about the same price as mine.
I haven't checked Chicago recently, but 10-15 years ago, you could easily find houses near enough the L-train such that your commute to downtown would be about 30 minutes.
It's always amusing to me how stubborn and pedantic HN commenters are over basic things. I can't help but play the game this once. I don't doubt that plenty of people share your view and plenty will share mine. We're discussing a subjective interpretation after all. But to come in like you did and try to claim that our totally standard view of what a city is is "weird" is just so absurd.
>If you get the right neighborhood, the commute to work by public transit will be 30-40 minutes.
Okay, so one of your idealized cases and it's still closer to the "1 hour by public transit" scenario than "10 minutes by driving" you originally chose. But you know people in Phoenix so case closed.
>The majority of people who live in cities in the US are not in the top 20 metropolitan areas
I'm curious where you get this, too. The top 5 MSAs already cover 25% of the population.
> I don't doubt that plenty of people share your view and plenty will share mine.
Your statement is true. And it's also true when we switch the pronouns. What's your point?
"Plenty" is not the same as "majority", which was your original claim.
> Okay, so one of your idealized cases and it's still closer
How is it one of my "idealized" cases? Putting words in my mouth isn't going to help this conversation.
> to the "1 hour by public transit" scenario than "10 minutes by driving" you originally chose.
1. I never claimed you will always find affordable houses within 10 minutes drive. I was countering the claim that it need be an hour or more. That it took 40 minutes is still in support of my claim. That it took more than 10 minutes doesn't refute my point.
2. It was fairly clear from my original comment that the point was one can move to a city where you can find sub-hour commutes. From that it's clear that I am not implying you'll find it with every employer or in every city. The whole comment was about choosing where you work.
> I'm curious where you get this, too. The top 5 MSAs already cover 25% of the population.
Simple: Look up a list of metro areas in the US. Add up the top 20. Then add up the rest.
Hint: A city of 100K is still a city. Trying to claim that this is a minority position will again get the same response: Given that most people who live in 100K (or even smaller) cities believe they live in a city, it would be incorrect to claim that the majority do not view such places as cities. There may far fewer employers for engineering in such cities, but I can assure you there are still plenty.
(And no, you don't need to go as low as 100K to get a cumulative greater than your top 20).
Your statement was:
> I'd wager most people think of something like the top 20 metropolitan statistical areas by population when they hear the term.
Baltimore is not in the top 20. Nor is San Antonio. Nor is Portland. Nor is Milwaukee. The list goes on and on. Do you think these people do not think of their own cities when using the word?
Reading your comment and others beneath you, I sense many of you have a weird idea of what a city is.
What you describe is true only for a minority of cities. I live in a city with above median housing prices. I live a 10 minute drive from my work. My house is not expensive - in fact, the expensive neighborhoods are farther away.
Initially you may not have much of a choice on where you work, but if you go through your whole career not having that choice, you probably need to work on your career a bit. For everyone I know, they decided to make that compromise (don't want to leave awesome city, etc). For them, not having enough time in the day definitely is a choice.
I agree with the rest of your accounting, but will note that there are weekends. As for gym, I just figured out exercises I can do at home with minimal equipment. It's a lot more flexible (and takes less time) than going to a gym.