> Pretty dismal discussion in here at the time of writing. Largely complaints about tyranny. Makes me sad that we can't have a calm discussion about the merits of the policy.
Ill bite and present a good faith argument.
Let's start with the fact COVID-19 is not a very scary disease. The media makes it seem FAR worse than the reality.
Yes, there are risks. It appears to be 2-4x more deadly than influenza, but primarily impacts people with pre-existing conditions. As such, those individuals should protect themselves. If society needs to make some minor accommodations that may make sense. Example, perhaps we allow elderly to shop 6-9am at stores. They're given n95's, etc.
To put it in perspective, in 2020 people in their 80's have a 20% higher chance of death than 2019, so if you have a 5% chance of dying per year, we're talking 6%. That's not dramatic.
> 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone eating takes off their mask right away?
The evidence cloth masks are effective doesn't exist. As such, the policy doesn't make sense. Surgical and N95 masks do have evidence they help, but aren't primarily what people are using.
If you're talking about "fears about getting the vaccine", the vaccine isn't approved and there are treatments for covid-19. Meaning we shouldn't have emergency use authorization at this point AND it's not an FDA approved drug. Even if it becomes approved, I would not expect anyone to take it without discussing with their doctors.
Trials today are not completed. All we have are preliminary reports (phase 1, 2, 3):
Long term impacts wont be known for 5-10 years. Further, many people can't have the vaccines.
I dont' see an issue with the vaccines, but people should be informed and not coerced.
> 2. You have fears about the privacy implications. If so, what are those fears? Perhaps your vaccination status can lead people to make inferences about your health?
In terms of privacy, the 4th amendment protects against government search and seizures. When government mandates papers being reviewed, they are effectively acting as agents of the state and doing searches.
Further, doctors should be the ones managing care, not bureaucrats. Historically, CDC and FDA issue suggestions and provide evidence. It's dangerous to try and enforce vaccines when we aren't taking into account pre-existing conditions. For instance, there are drugs, ages, pre-existing conditions, all of which impact vaccine effectiveness and risk profile(s).
Coercing people to take a take part in a human experimentation is something we consider a crime against humanity.
> 3. You are not particularly concerned about the community spread of coronavirus (and the implications of that)
The disease is already wide spread and approximately everyone has been exposed. Arguably the vast majority have a partial immunity (had the disease or vaccine). If it's still spreading, there's nothing we can do. Further, the delta variant spreads more easily, but is less deadly. So we shouldn't really worry here.
Ill bite and present a good faith argument.
Let's start with the fact COVID-19 is not a very scary disease. The media makes it seem FAR worse than the reality.
Yes, there are risks. It appears to be 2-4x more deadly than influenza, but primarily impacts people with pre-existing conditions. As such, those individuals should protect themselves. If society needs to make some minor accommodations that may make sense. Example, perhaps we allow elderly to shop 6-9am at stores. They're given n95's, etc.
To put it in perspective, in 2020 people in their 80's have a 20% higher chance of death than 2019, so if you have a 5% chance of dying per year, we're talking 6%. That's not dramatic.
> 1. You have fears about getting a vaccine, moreso than for coronavirus. If this is you, do you prefer a mask mandate? And if so, how do you enforce this in a restaurant, where anyone eating takes off their mask right away?
The evidence cloth masks are effective doesn't exist. As such, the policy doesn't make sense. Surgical and N95 masks do have evidence they help, but aren't primarily what people are using.
If you're talking about "fears about getting the vaccine", the vaccine isn't approved and there are treatments for covid-19. Meaning we shouldn't have emergency use authorization at this point AND it's not an FDA approved drug. Even if it becomes approved, I would not expect anyone to take it without discussing with their doctors.
Trials today are not completed. All we have are preliminary reports (phase 1, 2, 3):
https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/providers/clini...
Long term impacts wont be known for 5-10 years. Further, many people can't have the vaccines.
I dont' see an issue with the vaccines, but people should be informed and not coerced.
> 2. You have fears about the privacy implications. If so, what are those fears? Perhaps your vaccination status can lead people to make inferences about your health?
In terms of privacy, the 4th amendment protects against government search and seizures. When government mandates papers being reviewed, they are effectively acting as agents of the state and doing searches.
Further, doctors should be the ones managing care, not bureaucrats. Historically, CDC and FDA issue suggestions and provide evidence. It's dangerous to try and enforce vaccines when we aren't taking into account pre-existing conditions. For instance, there are drugs, ages, pre-existing conditions, all of which impact vaccine effectiveness and risk profile(s).
Coercing people to take a take part in a human experimentation is something we consider a crime against humanity.
> 3. You are not particularly concerned about the community spread of coronavirus (and the implications of that)
The disease is already wide spread and approximately everyone has been exposed. Arguably the vast majority have a partial immunity (had the disease or vaccine). If it's still spreading, there's nothing we can do. Further, the delta variant spreads more easily, but is less deadly. So we shouldn't really worry here.