By causing hospitals to be overloaded so I or people close to me can't be treated in an emergency? Not to mention all the hospital personnel having one more wave of hell to endure. By giving, possibly repeatedly so much viral lead to old people I know that they might end up in a hospital even when fully vaccinated? By being essentially a petri dish for creating new harmful variants?
The only potentially valid point here is hospital overload. Everything else you listed applies to the vaccinated as well.
Let's start by agreeing that hospital overload is definitely a bad thing.
Vaccination should help reduce the load, but has anything else been done? Hasn't staff in hospitals decreased over the course of the pandemic? Aren't we funneling tons of money to pharma instead of Frontline workers? What about setting up field hospitals? What about altering the priority access to emergency health care of the unvaccinated?
Hospital overload has been a liminal crisis for the past 2 years, but has yet to materialize as a real issue.
Have we just been getting lucky? narrowly avoiding disaster each wave?
Because this is almost starting to look like a boogeyman that pops up on a regular basis that reminds us that we need to live in fear.
> Vaccination should help reduce the load, but has anything else been done? Hasn't staff in hospitals decreased over the course of the pandemic? Aren't we funneling tons of money to pharma
People can go and get a jab. This is easy. Can be done in minutes. No harm done.
You can't build a hospital like that or get personal cloned from some pool of educated personal. Even if we'd have started 2 years ago. Wtf do you want with a field hospital? Those people don't need bandages...what are you talking about??
I know this smokescreen it just came up all over the anti-vaxxer scene. It's a hilarious attempt to cloud their own responsibility and divert the anger away from them. It won't work because it's so cheap and stupid. Especially coming from people who refuse to accept the easiest and fastest solution.
And NO, hospital overload is the only valid point. By spreading and keeping the pandemic running you also ruin peoples lifes economically. People who depend on crowds coming to their store for example or doing sports with them. Than there is long COVID...
Man...this topic is not new. All those ways this is harmful has been presented in the media over the last years. How can you still be so ignoran December 2021????
Field hospitals were proposed early on in 2020, they even sent the medical ship to NY up the Hudson. Its not my idea and it's not a new idea. If you're not aware of that, then I'm sorry for assuming the extent of your awareness.
We don't have to clone anyone. We can do 2 very easy things:
1. Rehire the unvaccinated that were let go.
2. Pay our front line workers more.
Everyone should support this. It's an easy win.
As someone who's unvaccinated and had covid, I honestly don't know what long covid is or why we should be afraid of it anymore than the long term effects of the vaccine.
Though if you fell for one boogeyman, it makes sense that you'd fall for another.
Covid is out of the box, economic damage is inevitable. How much is up to us. If you look at Florida, Sweden, or even the Amish, it's clear lockdowns do more economic harm than covid does.
Last but not least, I'll say it again.
Hospital collapse has been a liminal crisis for 2 years.
We have more vaccinated than ever before yet were still somehow on the brink of collapse. Nothing has been done about it except to scape goat the unvaccinated. People are going to be unvaccinated. The vaccine is going to wear off. Try doing something about it instead of dehumanizing people you disagree with.
> Field hospitals were proposed early on in 2020, they even sent the medical ship to NY up the Hudson.
So this ship was manned by robots or where is the connection to what I wrote?
> We don't have to clone anyone. We can do 2 very easy things: 1. Rehire the unvaccinated that were let go. 2. Pay our front line workers more.
Why would you hire somebody who is unable to do the most basic stuff to protect their patients (get vaccinated). Those people are obviously not suited for their job and I'm happy they are gone. There should be a list so those people never ever end up in a responsible job like that or at least need to get some MPU before they attempt it.
@2 you still won't magically conjure them out of nothing just because you pay them. You need to learn that stuff. It takes time.
> As someone who's unvaccinated and had covid, I honestly don't know what long covid is or why we should be afraid of it anymore than the long term effects of the vaccine.
I can't imagine how somebody can write such a thing December 2021 and still expect to be taken seriously.
I have zero expectations about people's ability to take the right thing seriously.
You've made up your mind. You have complete confidence and conviction in the vaccine.
That's fine. I respect your right to choose based on your own risk tolerance.
So of course you and other fanatics won't take these points seriously, you think the alt premise is completely illegitimate.
It's a fool errand to try to change the mind of someone who's certain they can't be wrong, so I'm not going to try.
What I am trying to do is explain that after 2 years of worrying trends, events, and numerous unknowns.. it's reasonable to believe we're not getting the full story about the vaccine.
But you know what, I hope I'm wrong. Let's chat again in 5 years, and then we'll know for certain.
I wonder if you didn't get the point or intentionally play stupid here because long COVID is a thing already. You don't have to wait 5 years for it. It's happening. It's documented. You can google it up. It's easy. Everybody can do it.
Just because YOU didn't have it, doesn't mean nobody else didn't.
I've seen zero convincing evidence of "long covid".
Mostly I see it defined as vague psychological effects .. hard to imagine any universal confounding factors that might result in everyone having a poorer psyche in general in recent history.
The effects last a few weeks on average, 3 months in rare cases. While its odd an ominous for the effects to last that long, there's no reason to believe it will last for years.
And while there are some real permanent effects, like loss of smell + taste, these are extremely rare. Like vaccine induced myocarditis rare, maybe even more so.
Meanwhile, "all cause of death" rates are on the rise, despite ATH vaccination rates. Is that definitely because of "long covid", and definitely not because of the vaccine? That doesn't make sense to me.
