I can see why people idealistically want the device but mine is really not up to being a usable production device. The wonky design of the “modules” means they’re practically useless, the hardware has almost endlessly has stability and issues with bricking, it has never once given me confidence in almost any respect. I want to love the thing and there’s nice features about the product, but I’d hesitate to suggest anybody seriously use the thing.
I'm writing this with buyer's remorse on my Framework.
It's a huge step down from my previous Thinkpads. The battery life is atrocious - a night in modern standby drains the battery from 80% to 35%. Outside the office battery life is a constant worry, I mostly use it docked these days.
The display hinge is wobbly - when I lift my Framework from my lap on a table it often folds back 180 degrees. Very annoying.
In general it feels less durable than my old Thinkpad X1.
Linux support is better than on most laptops and worse than on Thinkpads, e.g. no BIOS upgrades out of the box (only beta firmwares for months). Additionally, I experience rare kernel loops, sometimes the laptop doesn't shut off properly etc. Overall Thinkpads seem to be more stable.
Key section: "However, we identified that for a period of time last fall, our hinge supplier shipped a subset of hinges with forces below our accepted spec range. We’ve since added additional tests both at the hinge supplier and at our laptop assembly site to prevent out of spec hinges from shipping out. If you have a laptop where the lid angle drops on its own while the laptop is stationary, write into support with a video of it, and we’ll send you a new Hinge Kit."
Thank you for the link. Apparently I received a batch where this problem has been fixed.
The hinge is not very wobbly when typing and won't move if I lift the laptop carefully. However, it won't stay in position when moving it quicker.
Maybe this is by design so one can open the lid with a single hand. I prefer the sturdy hinge on my old Thinkpads though - it's difficult to open them with one hand but they stay in position when I move them.
Ah, it really did sound like you got one of the defective hinges. Though, you still do have the option of buying the 4.0 kg hinge kit for $24 and installing it. Having to buy a part isn't ideal, at least it's available.
This is because modern Intel processors don't support S3 sleep[1], they instead only have Microsoft's Deep Sleep (s0ix). The only alternative is laptops with ARM or AMD(?) processors, but I haven't got a good recommendation for one.
Lenovo offers old S3 on modern CPUs. Linux also supports the new sleep states. Get a better distro if you're having problems. This is a solved problem for like 5 years.
I don’t own a framework, but will probably get one at some point. This issue, at least, has been fixed. You can swap the hinges out for the new ones— not sure if it’s a free fix or not, though.
Don't worry the new ThinkPad batteries are just as good awful.
And... It's not actually the batteries, it's just the newer CPUs. If you want good battery life on intel you simply have to downlevel the CPU as much as possible or go back a few generations to an i5. My old x260 still gets 8 hours of coding on a charge. But my recent X1 is lucky to get 3 hours.
Even though I hear reports like this, I still want to buy one. Entering the hardware market is a hell of a thing to do at this point in time, and I have to applaud their chutzpah. I'm not surprised at all that there are several data points where they don't stack up against multi-billion-dollar companies, and I'm okay with it personally.
It’s a non-stop parade of weirdness. Fixes from recent BIOS release notes include things like “Fix battery not charging when system is off.”
https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/framework-laptop-bios...
Again, part of me is glad I supported them. I just wish I wasn’t reminded of it several times a week when I’m dealing with one random issue or another with it.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I regret it more than any other large technology purchase I’ve ever made. If it weren’t for the principal of the matter I’d just cut my losses, buy something else, and put this thing in a closet.
I'm curious, do you have a 11th gen or 12th gen Framework? I have a 12th gen 1280P Framework which runs Pop!_OS that I received a month ago, and have yet to run into a single issue of any kind. I wonder if the issues you've faced are due to being an early adopter, wherein they may have fixed some of those issues with their second revision.
I also run a startup from it, wherein it's my software development machine when I don't feel like sitting at my desktop. It would need to be flawless in order to accomplish that as I can't really tolerate any downtime due to computer issues especially when I have a fully functioning high-end desktop, and flawless it has been. In fact, this is the first laptop that doesn't make me miss my desktop from being too slow or otherwise not performing the way I'd like.
Charging works regardless of the laptop being on or off, it performs beyond my expectations with no thermal issues while pushing the processor to its limit (something other laptops have always failed at for me), and the various expansion cards all work very well regardless of what configuration they're in. Overall, I've been regarding it as one of the best purchases I've made recently. After a month of ownership and using it over my desktop, I can honestly say that I picked the right laptop. I would lambaste the laptop if it had issues, but I can't think of one time over the past month where it's been problematic.
This doesn't even touch on the fact that if I were to have an issue, Framework's support has seemed to be very responsive based on others' reports (especially for a startup), and the fact that I can continue to use the laptop or even just have it in my possession while whichever replacement part is being shipped out. This alone would make me choose this laptop over any other.
To be fair, the widely praised 16" Macbook Pro had a very similar issue. The battery did not charge via USB-C when computer is off and lid is closed, if I recall correctly. I don't know if they fixed it, in practise my computer is almost never off.
There is also an issue where the built-in webcam stops working and you need to restart the computer to get it to work again.
Considering how much I spent on the machine I was hoping not to be bothered by issues like this...
I haven't had the same issues with my framework. I'm running an Intel 11-gen i5 version of a framework I bought in Feb of '22. Sure the battery life sucks for Fedora and the trackpad is a overly sensitive but overall it's worked fine for me. I complained to them about a noisy fan and they sent me a new one.
Perhaps there's some variability in the build quality between machines or batches. I've been happy with my purchase.
That's a shame. Maybe you could still sell it (pass on the principles to someone with no startup to run) and get a better laptop. Thanks for the elaboration.
From my perspective using a 12th gen on Fedora 36, which is allegedly the best supported Linux flavor (although Windows on the Framework doesn't have many of these issues so I'm considering installing it instead):
* Horrific battery life. I don't actually mind that the battery life under light usage is in the 6-7 hours neighborhood. What I do mind is that the battery life when the laptop isn't being used is abysmal. When I shut the lid, I lose 20% of the battery every day. Since I got the Framework to supplement a desktop, that really isn't acceptable. Fedora 36 doesn't do hibernate out of the box, but on OSes where that's doable battery life while inactive should be better
* The trackpad scrolling is annoyingly fast, and I haven't found a way to change it (on my mac I can just change the scroll speed under mouse settings, but Fedora doesn't expose that option)
* Speaking of the settings app, the settings app FREQUENTLY causes the laptop to lock up. This is a known issue and might only affect certain hardware configs, but it is super annoying.
* Brightness buttons don't work out of the box. Only way to use them is to disable the laptop's built in brightness sensor
* Don't love the fn key placement but maybe I'll get used to it over time
My Arch Linux install running Sway loses a few percent overnight (max 10-20%). This is with deep sleep enabled (1) in kernel parameters. My Framework has an 11th gen i5.
“DeepSleep:
My Framework is defaulting to S2Idle which is burning through battery like crazy during sleep. you can enable deep sleep by adding a kernel boot option in `/boot/efi/loader/entries/pop_OS-current.conf`
Just add `mem_sleep_default=deep`
At the end of the options line. Waking up from sleep will take a little bit longer, but you won’t be chewing up battery while you rest.”
