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> The manufacturing complex could consume up to 10 million gallons of water per day, enough to supply a whole town or village. The entire city of Syracuse, by comparison, uses an average of 40 million gallons per day.

We have a lot of water in the area, and foundries are very water intensive. That was a smart long term play of Micron. Very happy to hear about this.



I feel these numbers are always a bit misleading. Sure the processes takes 10 million gallons a day, but much of that water can be reclaimed and recirculated.

> “Conventional treatment of wastewater at semiconductor plants had recycled anywhere from 40 percent to 70 percent of water used in their processes,” explains Govindan. “Some manufacturers still only recycle 40 percent of the water they use.”

> However, over the past two years Gradiant has been working with semiconductor plants, improving their water reuse so that they're able to recycle 98 percent of the water they use. So, instead of bringing in 10 million gallons of freshwater a day from outside, these new recycling technologies mean they need to draw only 200,000 gallons of water from outside the plant to operate.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/fabs-cut-back-water-use


Gradiant has this cool scheme (from MIT) for distilling water using a carrier gas. The special sauce was a "bubble tray condenser" that condenses water from the carrier gas by bubbling it through trays of progressively cooler water. This provides enormous surface area to get around the problem of mass transfer through the boundary layer.


Yes, it's basically like an indoor swimming pool. It takes a lot of water to initially fill it, but they clean and reuse most of it.


They use hydrofluoric acid to balance the pH, then go skinny dipping.


I also can't take those numbers seriously, since I once saw a documentary about coffee... And they calculated the water of a small river nearby that was partly redirected to wash away the shells of the coffee beans.


Wouldn’t the upper range, 70% recycled water, still be 3,000,000 gallons of water / day?


This is why it seems so odd to me that companies including both Intel and TSMC keep setting up shop in Arizona of all places. At least NY has ample rainfall and borders two Great Lakes.


Low sesimic activity. You want the FAB to run 24/7 even if that means trucking in expensive water. Any down time will absolutely wipe out any cost savings from cheaper water. Probably even easier still to invest some extra capital to recycle more water.


What sesimic activity occurs in upstate ny?


Somewhat often but minor. I believe it's called glacial rebound. As someone tangentially involved in the optical side of chip fab, I am excited to have a neighbor like this. We work primarily with Micron competitors, but this is good for WesternNewYork.


I feel like naming regions in New York is a fools errand, sure to “offend” everyone, but “western” New York is generally considered to be west of Rochester. Syracuse is about as Central New York as you can get.


Everything north of Westchester is Upstate.


>Everything north of ~~Westchester~~ the speaker is Upstate.

FTFY

Similar phenomenon occurs in England, where "the north" and "the south" always begin to the north/south of whoever is being asked. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENeCYwms-Cc>


I think the concept is everywhere.

Like everything south of 175th Street in Chicagoland is Downstate Illinois. Indianapolis is in the center of Indiana, so they call everything outside the inner ring of suburbs {first half of city name}-tucky, as in a pejorative reference to Kentucky.


>Like everything south of 175th Street in Chicagoland is Downstate Illinois.

"And as much as I would like to attend, l haven't been above 72nd Street in over a decade." —Jack Donaghy, 30 Rock


...and Upstate is divided into lots of different regions, like Western New York, and Central New York, as we're talking about here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_of_the_United_...


I’ve taken this concept to its fullest conclusion: everything north of the Long Beach Bridge (or Cross Bay Bridge if you live there) is “upstate”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Beach_Bridge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_Bay_Veterans_Memorial_Br...


That’s only if you’re from Westchester. If you’re from the city, Westchester is considered upstate.


Respectful disagree. Upstate and downstate are relative terms meaning "further from / closer to NYC than wherever I live", everywhere but Long Island (which is a separate category entirely.)


San Francisco is actually central California (Eureka is northern CA). Same premise.


There are minor quakes. When the College of Nanoscale Science built the facility for the now defunct G450C initiative, they poured concrete like 30 feet thick to stabilize the building.

Unfortunately while the physical infrastructure was resilient, the business didn’t survive the university president’s conviction for bid rigging. Iirc like $150M of equipment was written off and sold as scrap.


History of Earthquakes in New York

https://nesec.org/new-york-earthquakes/


None, but taxes are much higher in ny


I know chips need to be cleaned with ultra pure water - but 10 million gallons?!

That sounds like a lot. It's like 20 Olympic swimming pools - 30 acre feet of water... That's about how much 7500 acres of farmland uses per day - a decent portion of which is actually just rain...

Is there an easy way to understand why they need THAT much water?

IIUC, there's about ~600 chips per wafer (depends on chip and wafer size), and a plant produces ~30,000 wafers per month. That's ~18M chips per month, or ~600,000 per day.

So each chip needs ~17 gallons of water?! These chips are TINY - like not even a cubic inch. Volumetrically, that's like 5000x as much water.

Why??


I hope Micron got their tax agreements in triplicate and signed in both ink and blood, I wouldn't trust NY state without mithril-clad contracts.


Any idea why it would require this much water?


It gets ultrapurified and used to wash _everything_ all the time, lots of steps are chemically nasty and need to be completely gone before production proceeds.


Can they recycle it on site?


Yes, and they (universally?) already do recycle substantial fractions (>30%) of their wastewater. It’s a hot area of development. Truly enormous amounts of rinsing, mindboggling.


This video from YouTube talks a bit about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3RzODSR3gk


Funny how the factory "consumes" water, while the city only "uses" it.


Does the effluent have different outcomes?


Factory might be recycling, city probably just treats and puts back into the environment (just a guess but doubt they are recycling water in NY).


The city of Syracuse gets most of its water from Skaneateles Lake, a small lake southwest of the city. It’s very clean water, and the city has a filtration waiver that allows them to use unfiltered water from the lake (it’s widely considered to be some of the best municipal water in the country). The city’s treated (and sometimes untreated, depending on how much rain we’ve had) waste water is dumped into Onondaga Lake, which is not part of the Skaneateles Lake watershed.

Most of the rest of the area, outside the city limits (and a few surrounding towns that are connected with the Syracuse water system for legacy reasons), gets its water from Lake Ontario, which is where this plant’s water would be coming from as well.

If anyone is curious, I am happy to ramble on for quite a while about the municipal water systems of the greater Syracuse area (occupational hazard of a couple decades as a firefighter in the area).


I am very curious, please do!


Hah, it would get very boring, very fast...

When the area was first colonized by Europeans, the major hubs in the area were actually south of Syracuse, along the Seneca and Cherry Valley Turnpikes, which were the original east/west routes through the state, prior to the construction of the Erie Canal (the canal is a significant contributing reason Syracuse became the major settlement and the southern towns are just suburbs now). Due to those earlier settlements though, there were a number of water districts that predate the Syracuse city water district in the southern part of Onondaga County.

Those districts have now all been rolled into the county water authority, which coordinates with the Syracuse Department of Water to deliver water to the surrounding area.

Of interest to firefighting though, this patchwork of water districts that combined over time has resulted in a variety of different threads on fire hydrants, with "Syracuse Standard" and "National Standard" hydrants often being found within the same fire districts. Pretty much every fire truck/engine in the area carries adapters to convert from one to the other.




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