I'll check out the 30,000 book. I can't say I've read 100% of the Bible, there are some pretty dry books that don't add much. But, I didn't just search the web and find some good quotes.

I often advocate that Christians should read the Bible. For two reasons,

1. Most Christians advocate/believe things that are not in the Bible and if they are going to so passionately drive the country off a cliff, they should at least know what is in it.

2. Reading it kind of cures them, there is no 'atheist' argument against the Bible that is as strong as just reading it. Read all the parts that churches cherry picks around. Actually reading it will cause most people to realize they don't believe it.

Christianity was viewed as a 'mystic cult' from the beginning, it is almost 'pagan' in its beliefs, which sounds strange today. But seeing a group chanting and talking about Democrats being possessed by demons and thus we need a war to kill them, it all looks very much like a bad horror movie.

-> It really is an argument for why religion should NOT be in politics, because politics is messy and the religion is then tainted by the politics. By being involved in politics the religion is diminished.

If you really want to spread the word of Jesus, then how is politics helping that, unless you are doing it for control. Look at me, I'm open to trying to understand the Bible, but if all I see are evangelicals talking about demon possession, and the need for guns to fight a holy war, and chanting around the president, that is not helping spread the word. It's the opposite, they look crazy and scary.

1. This is true. When I read it the first time I was more shocked by how much wasn’t in it than how much was.

2. I had the opposite experience. I was an atheist/agnostic (and an angry one at that) for about 8 years. Then God changed my life in a manner so direct that it left me with no doubt at all. I read the Bible over 3 years to understand what happened to me and I helped a lot. Then I started doing studies, joined a Sunday School class, a men’s Bible study and even guest taught a few lessons. I was greatly encouraged to find that I was allowed to disagree with people during Bible studies and we would all learn together. This blew away all my misconceptions about church in general. I always assumed everybody agreed about everything. That’s not the case. Everybody is there to learn. The more you study, the more you can contribute.

If you’re curious, I blog about it at https://www.readnotmisled.org

As far as politics, the biggest thing people push for is the freedom to live without being forced to do what they believe is wrong or to have their children forced to participate in things that violate their faith. I can’t see any problem with that.

I wish everyone had that attitude about their religions. Learning is something I can get behind in any endeavor.

Guess why this subject gets heated is because Christians do tend to think their freedoms are infringed upon by others having freedom. Like "other people being allowed to be gay, infringes upon my freedom to not allow gays to exist". (gay as just example here).

That is the problem with Religion. If my holy book tells me that something is evil, and I truly believe that god is real, and this book is divine, then now I'm duty bound to go fight evil, even if it is not infringing upon me in anyway. I now must go out and stop it, and take away others freedom.

Pick any hot button issue they are fighting now, and it is very Cherry picked. All of the passages against being gay also include not eating shellfish, so where is the outrage over seafood restaurants?

I think a closer look at all of these issues, Christians are not being forced to do anything against their beliefs, instead they are actively taking away others freedoms. Lets say you do have a religious based food restraint, is there really a school somewhere tying kids down and forcing them to eat it?

In all cases, the need for religious schools is NOT to prevent kids from doing something against their religion, it is to allow them to practice their parents religion while in school, it is to purposely to keep them from knowledge, so that the message they receive is controlled.

Christians are so indoctrinated in the belief that they are the meek, the victims, that they feel justified in fighting anybody that does not believe like them, then prostrate about being the 'victim'.

In any case. It is good to hear about positive experiences. Just seems like for the typical 'user' of the text, the Bible leads more people astray, than it does leading them to any realizations. There are more wrong paths, than paths to your type of experience.

EDIT Other good example, super hot button: Prayer in School.

But, NOBODY in a public school is forcing kids to pray to the 'wrong' god'. It is Christians actively wanting to force everyone else 'to pray'. You say you don't want to be forced to do something, but this is explicitly a case where that happens, Christians want to force others to pray, then turn around and act the 'victim', because they can't force others.

I want to give this a proper response but I don’t know if you’ll see the reply. Can you let me know if you’ll check this in the next couple of days?

Sure. I'll check. I'm not sure how long a discussion like this can go on HN.

And understand, in the last post, those are just some examples. Like recently, 'gay' is no longer the hot topic it was 10 years ago, now Transphobia has taken its place to fire up the religious base. So not sure the bible quotes apply. (It can get confusing, there are legit genetic disorders why victimize them?, and if a woman is infertile, is she still a woman? The religious split hairs in each case and get backed into a corner)

Not to open a whole new line, but the intersection of Religion and Technology(not science) is maybe problem. Like Blood Transfusions, some sects say the bible doesn't allow them. Or invitro fertilization is not allowed. The bible doesn't really have specific opinions on these new things, they are just shoe-horned in.

Don't know. Every Christian Sect has some interpretation. Really, on both sides here, my side too, the arguments are old. Really hundreds of years old, with many notable names.

I do say and mean this, if Religion helped you, then good, if it is something that helps you get through the day and cope with the world, then good. I'm all for people finding some solace. Just keep it private. It's only a problem when someone has a meaningful experience, then gets fired up to make everyone else see it too.