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Can we also talk about the green button is "full screen" and not a maximized window?

I had an app that adds windows tiling that also added this feature and it made osx a breeze to use. Better touch type or something like that.

I went back to windows because I couldn't give up my magsafe and HDMI port. Go figure immediately after I bought a Razer blade apple understood their error and brought back the magsafe and HDMI ports.



The green button is still “maximize” if you hold Cmd while clicking it; and you can switch which one is the default behavior in Settings.


The green button is still “maximize” if you hold Cmd while clicking it; and you can switch which one is the default behavior in Settings.

Half of the macOS complaints on HN are always PEBKAC from people who won't RTFM.


These things constantly change and who has time for all of that?

Windows to me is intuitive by default, I can't find macOS intuitive after 10 years even when being forced to work with it professionally.

I still can't deal with copy paste ctrl/cmd btn being in an awkward position and if I change it in the settings other problems ensue. My muscle memory is all kinds of done.


>These things constantly change and who has time for all of that?

While Apple does change some things with some regularity, the change from "Zoom Window" to "Full Screen" for the green button (and it's alternate behavior when holding option) has been in place since 10.7, 13 years ago. The ability to double click a window titlebar to get the same effect has been in place since the classic mac OS days. I imagine most people have time within a 13 year period to type "Maximize" into the Help search and read the "Move and arrange app windows" topic, and specifically the "Maximize or minimize app windows" section therein.


> the change from "Zoom Window" to "Full Screen" for the green button (and it's alternate behavior when holding option) has been in place since 10.7

Not exactly, full screen was introduced in 10.7 (Lion) but it used a separate button on the right side of the window. 10.10 (Yosemite) moved it to the green button.


> Windows to me is intuitive by default

Because you are used to it. It would've been the other way around if you grew up with macOS. I have no problem with both of these systems after spending the time to get used to how macOS behaves. Hated it at first too after being "forced" to use it at work because I wanted to use it like Windows.


But I still feel bad about using it even though I have been using it as primary for 10 years now.

All the little details annoy me, like the animations, settings, mouse acceleration, etc, etc.

I know some animations can be turned off, some things can be tweaked, but this is also annoying.

I haven't ever seen as cheesy animations as the genie or the annoying jumping icon.

Spotlight search rarely giving me the results I want, then at last moment when I'm going to pick something, changing the results, etc.

And in general the toolbar design I don't like at all, I still can't reliably feel it out when the toolbar should pop up from the bottom when not, and then all the windows are kind of positioned in a messed up way due to that, either having a weird gap below when the toolbar is not visible.

Windows has it flat out constantly visible.


And Windows has added the stupid search bar, changed the start menu, made stuff in the task bar slot on the right side automatically hide etc.

Completely unintuitive.

Of course when you're "forced" to work with something, you don't have the motivation to learn to use it properly.

Just like me with Windows. I just can't understand the logic of having a global shortcut to open Linkedin for example :)


And where is the manual for OSX?

I swear, half the people on HN are OSX sychophants who can't fathom a minor criticism on the UX for OSX. It doesn't, "just work" all the time and guess what? Even IOS has its own UX quirks (swipe back ring a bell)?

We get it, you're a herd follower and like looking cool by buying over priced fashion tech pieces.


And where is the manual for OSX?

Google is your friend:

https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/welcome/mac

Clearly you're not up to date on what's happening with Apple, or Macs since "OSX" hasn't been a thing since 2016.


A pedantic engineer has appeared!

This may come as a surprise to you, but I don't care. I don't have time to read manuals and spend time on the welcome documentation.

If it isn't obvious OOTB how to use somettbing like an OS that is built on the presupposition of ease of us, then your UX is bad and not intuitive. We're not talking specializes software here like a DAW or a IDE. It's a desktop OS ffs.


Translation: I don’t know how to use something new and it doesn’t do exactly what I imagine it should do and instead of learning I get mad


The thread:

> complaints .. are ... from people who won't RTFM

> (you) And where is the manual for OSX?

> [link]

> (you) I don't care. I don't have time to read manuals

Are you being serious?


Yes. OSX is designed precisely so one doesn't have to RTFM. If my you can't see that, go back to your Mac. We get it you're a follower.


There is no "OSX". You don't know anything about me. Stop being obtuse.


There’s a help menu right at the top of the screen. In every app it will search the menus and provided application help. In the finder, it also has a “macOS help” item which brings up the offline user manual, including the table of contents where you will find the entry “Apps -> Work with app windows -> Maximize or minimize app windows”


My wife's iOS crashes multiple times a week. She does open too much stuff but that's no excuse for an OS crash.

We went to genius bar and they basically told her she was using it wrong.

I guess OS stability is not guaranteed these days.


I agree that that's no excuse and I'm genuinely sorry about your wife's experience, but it just doesn't happen to many people. I'm currently on my first iPhone, a 13 Mini, and I don't remember it ever "crashing". I don't even know what that looks like, like if there's an error message or if it just hangs or goes black, I don't know how to force-reboot it, because I don't need to. My fiancée and my dad are both on their first iPhones and (because I'm the one who talked them into it) I ask them regularly if they're happy — they both are, with zero issues.

To be fair, there was a period when Safari on my iPad would hang occasionally, and that got resolved by an update.


Amen, like I said Apple psychophants are everywhere.


Works for some programs but not for other. The best permanant fix was bettertouchtool.


Window management in macOS has gotten worse over time.

There are at least 3 ways to do everything now (e.g. Classic windowing, fullscreen splits, Spaces, Stage Manager), and they're all a bit crap.

Apple needs to implement a proper window management API that lets you replace Dock.app (which controls a lot of window management suff IIRC) so that we can do it ourselves and not rely on accessibility API hacks or disabling SIP.




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