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> If they want to own the copyright for my work, how about they pay me?

If you want to merge your code into someone else's repository, thereby benefiting from their continued maintenance efforts, how about you give them the copyright? You don't have to if you don't want to. You can keep your copyright by merging your improvements into your own fork and maintaining it yourself. It is within your power.

Seems like a fair deal to me. Everyone gets a nice AGPLv3 project to hack on. That's freedom and it is assured. If you want someone else to maintain that project for you the least you can do is give them control over it by assigning copyright. It's still AGPLv3 for everyone else, and it gives the maintainers the leverage needed to negotiate deals with corporations.

Companies paying for exceptions to the GPL is something even Stallman promotes.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling-exceptions.html

This is a good thing and strengthens free software. Being against this is a position so extreme that even Stallman rejects it. And it can't be done if you need the consent of every single contributor.

I even emailed Stallman directly to confirm the ethics of this. He says it's better this way because only the copyright owner can do it. Permissive licenses give everyone that power. Copyleft keeps it contained.

  > It is my understanding that as the copyright holders
  > they have the right to do it without any problems.
  > They leverage the AGPLv3 to make it harder for their
  > competitors to use the code to compete against them.

  I see what you mean. The original developer can engage
  in a practice that blocks coopertation.

  By contrast, using some other license, such as the ordinary GPL,
  would permitt ANY user of the program to engage in that practice.
  In a perverse sense that could seem more fair,
  but I think it is also more harmful.

  On balance, using the AGPL is better.


I'm confused. The part with Stallman is about using AGPL vs GPL and has nothing to do with the CLA, has it?


It's an excerpt of a much bigger email.

I told him about corporations using AGPLv3 as leverage in order to build SaaS products around the software. As copyright holders, they can do whatever they want while everyone else must comply with license terms. The CLA is a necessary component of that strategy.

I asked him what he thought of the practice. That's what he replied. He didn't go into much detail about SaaS. He said it was too broad a term to judge.

Here's the full email exchange:

  Hello, Dr. Stallman. I would like to know your views
  on the ethics of certain uses of the AGPLv3.

  There are apparently some corporations that
  are releasing free software under the AGPLv3
  while building software-as-a-service platforms
  using the same software. It is my understanding
  that as the copyright holders they have the right
  to do it without any problems. They leverage the
  AGPLv3 to make it harder for their competitors
  to use the code to compete against them.

  In online discussions on this matter, I pointed
  to an article that you wrote regarding the ethics
  of selling exceptions to the GPL. You argued
  that that if selling this exception was unethical
  then so was releasing software under permissive
  licenses, and rejected the idea that it was unethical.
  The conclusion was that this enabled proprietary
  software to be freed, an ideal outcome.

  I'd like to ask if you think the same logic applies
  to the SaaS situation I mentioned. I think it does,
  but others did not agree.

  People are using the AGPLv3 to maximize leverage.
  Corporations seem to be incapable of tolerating the
  license's terms, a situation that leads to copyright
  holders providing a business solution: paying for it.
  They can buy special permission to use the software.
  These days, it appears the choice being offered is to
  buy into the company's SaaS platform instead of
  purchasing a special permission or license.

  The exact mechanism employed by the business
  seems like a minor detail to me but perhaps there
  are some ethical considerations that I'm not seeing.
  So I decided to send you this email and ask what
  your opinion on the matter is.

  Thank you for your time,
      Matheus

  ---

  > There are apparently some corporations [...]

  "Software as a service" covers such a broad range of computing
  practices that I generally don't use it.  It is too broad, and gives
  too little information, to judge whether a practice is good or bad.

  > It is my understanding [...]

  I see what you mean.  The original developer can engage
  in a practice that blocks coopertation.

  By contrast, using some other license, such as the ordinary GPL,
  would permitt ANY user of the program to engage in that practice.
  In a perverse sense that could seem more fair, but I think it
  is also more harmful.

  On balance, using the AGPL is better.


Right. So this is about AGPL, not about CLA... I thought we were talking about CLAs.


> how about you give them the copyright

under US law, this is an impossibility. Under a CLA, you retain your copyright, and you (typically) give someone else a perpetual, irrevocable license to use your copyrighted material in their own product.


to clarify, it's an impossibility to give it to them irrevocably as under US law you can reclaim a copyright that's been transferred to another party after a statutorily defined period of time


I just looked it up and you're right. Apparently there's no way to sell or give away the copyrights. Ever. You can "transfer" it, license it, whatever... Then suddenly show up and demand it back 35 years later.

Copyright law is completely insane.


This is probably designed for book authors and delinquent publishers that stop selling author's books, then the authors can take back the copyright and go to another publisher.


Why do you believe that the contributor benefits more from contributing to a project than the project does?


Because they get to leave while others get to maintain the code including their contribution until the end of time.


They don't have to accept the contribution if they think it's not worth it. If they think it's worth something, they can pay for it.


> how about you give them the copyright?

I refuse in general. If they want me to read and sign extra legalese, I expect to be paid for it.

If they are unwilling me to pay for my time and code I license away, then I will find other project to contribute to.




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